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26-11-2015 16:33:58  #1


On double-spacing after a hard stop and all that

A long, long time ago, I can still remember how the music used to make me smile, and...

beak wrote:

I've never done anything else other than double-space after the full stop - I was classic without even knowing it! 

Good lord I was right but I let myself be beaten into submission by group think!

For ever since when I had been double spacing after what you call a full stop and what I call a period. Then, I think, even when I typed something, I remember my wife who was all smart 'n literary 'n such, so I would think would know, asking "Why did you do that?" in a tone suggesting this was some embarrassing bit of illiteracy. That single snub did not deter me, but I believe Microsoft Word puts those darn squiggly grammar lines in when you do it, so I finally stopped not so much because I thought Word was right, but the way you might let a nagging person get their way just to shut them up.

I shall certainly continue to do so in type, now - though I notice even in ranting about it I did not follow this convention here, and I also see the editor creates extra space after a period for me, though only counting it as one space. Maybe Word does the same.

My BlackBerry is officious in the other direction - if you accidentally double space in the middle of a sentence it inserts a period and capitalizes the next letter! I am not joking when I say it is a major advantage of a typewriter that you can create absolutely any sequence of letters and space you wish, and it remains silent. It does not presume to correct the master. A better type of servant might, but would have the wit to know when to speak and when to remain silent; if your servant has the IQ of an idiot-savant software application better he remain silent at all times.


"Damn the torpedoes! Four bells, Captain Drayton".
 

26-11-2015 23:09:55  #2


Re: On double-spacing after a hard stop and all that

Repartee wrote:

A long, long time ago, I can still remember how the music used to make me smile, and...

beak wrote:

I've never done anything else other than double-space after the full stop - I was classic without even knowing it! 

Good lord I was right but I let myself be beaten into submission by group think!

For ever since when I had been double spacing after what you call a full stop and what I call a period. Then, I think, even when I typed something, I remember my wife who was all smart 'n literary 'n such, so I would think would know, asking "Why did you do that?" in a tone suggesting this was some embarrassing bit of illiteracy. That single snub did not deter me, but I believe Microsoft Word puts those darn squiggly grammar lines in when you do it, so I finally stopped not so much because I thought Word was right, but the way you might let a nagging person get their way just to shut them up.
.... snip ....

Relax---there are reasons for all of this. It helps sanity to know how all these "rules" came to be. First of all, it's not a matter of "right" or "wrong" but rather clarity and aesthetics.

tl;dr: Relax; each style has its place.

In the days before computers, there were typists and typesetters and they didn't mix much so they didn't argue. Typists worked with fixed-width fonts and so double spacing at the end of sentences helped clarify the flow of the thoughts. Most (all?) typing teachers taught double-space-after-a-period and the students learned it without thinking about it (And why should they? How many of you double-spacers put a double space after the period in "Dr.  Jones"?)

Typesetters, OTOH, worked with proportional fonts and a single space at the end of a sentence in such a face better fits the visual flow of text than the jarring double space.

Then along come computers and millions of people with no knowledge of typography start "generating output" with proportional fonts. All they have to go by is the old typewriter rule above that they either remember or are taught by older people who do remember their typewriter days but who never had any knowledge of typesetting. Pretty soon after that some people who _do_ know typography are grousing about how single spacing looks better with proportional fonts (which it does). Now we got disagreement about rules. I lived through all of this in the 1980s.

Actually it's not about stupidity or literacy as such but simply about following a rule without knowing why. Or, more accurately, without being aware that different conditions led to different styles. 

So now you know. Relax.

The predominant style with typewriters is double space at the end of sentences; do that and your work today will have that period look.The predominant style with proportional fonts, which almost all computer work today is, is single space at the end of sentences; do that and your work will look like you know what you're doing.

HTH

 

26-11-2015 23:59:11  #3


Re: On double-spacing after a hard stop and all that

Hi Repartee

In the time it took me to research and write up a reply, M. Höhne responded covering much of the same material I had found out. Therefore, I have omitted anything to do with typesetters as M. Höhne covered this subject elegantly and accurately. Following is what I have found out;
=10ptHi Repartee=10pt =10ptHere is the authoritative word according to my wife whom all her working life has been an administrative assistant right from the days of the IBM Selectric. This is basically what the Chicago Manual of Style says about double spacing.=10pt =10ptIn the time of the mechanical and electric typewriter with non-proportional or mono spacing, double spacing was required to differentiate between an abbreviation and the end of a sentence. When typing an abbreviation such as lb. oz. etc. a single space told the reader that this was an abbreviation as opposed to a new sentence with a missed capital letter. A double space indicated that a new sentence was beginning. If the word after a double space did not begin with a capital, it was a typographical error.=10pt =10ptOnce computers came into mainstream and proportionally spaced text was the norm, the need for double spacing after a period or full stop became unnecessary. Some word processing programs also allow kerning of text to further compact the text. If you take time to read “The PC is not a typewriter” by Robyn Williams, this is further expanded upon in her explanation of creating visually appealing sentences and paragraphs.=10pt =10ptFor us who enjoy using our trusty mechanical typewriters for typing letters to friends and family, double spacing after a full stop or period is correct to the era of the machine. If however, you are using your typewriter to write a novel that may go to print, typesetters really despise the double space after a full stop or period, so use a single space after a sentence. Hope this sheds a little light on the issue.=10pt =10ptAn additional note for the interested. The American Psychological Association in their sixth edition of APA Style publishing manual say that a double space after a sentence can make reading easier for those afflicted with mild to moderate dyslexia.


We humans go through many computers in our lives, but in their lives, typewriters go through many of us.
In that way, they’re like violins, like ancestral swords. So I use mine with honor and treat them with respect.
I try to leave them in better condition than I met them. I am not their first user, nor will I be their last.
Frederic S. Durbin. (Typewriter mania and the modern writer)
 

27-11-2015 00:01:42  #4


Re: On double-spacing after a hard stop and all that

Yikes

Copy and paste from MS word does weird things on this forum. If I could edit this I would, guess we'll just have to muddle through it as best we can.

Sky


We humans go through many computers in our lives, but in their lives, typewriters go through many of us.
In that way, they’re like violins, like ancestral swords. So I use mine with honor and treat them with respect.
I try to leave them in better condition than I met them. I am not their first user, nor will I be their last.
Frederic S. Durbin. (Typewriter mania and the modern writer)
 

27-11-2015 00:20:28  #5


Re: On double-spacing after a hard stop and all that

M. Höhne wrote:

The predominant style with typewriters is double space at the end of sentences; do that and your work today will have that period look.The predominant style with proportional fonts, which almost all computer work today is, is single space at the end of sentences; do that and your work will look like you know what you're doing.

Then there are those of us who single space after a period when using a typewriter. And to think that I thought I'd stopped stealing sheep many years ago. 

​I originally learned to type using a typewriter, and it was a double-spaced world back then. Then ​I moved on to typewriters with word processors, and honestly have no recollection what I did after a period when using them. Next,having completely stopped using typewriters, there was the switch to PCs and word processing software, and of course I single-spaced the hell out of everything. And now, after rediscovering the typewriter several years ago? I still single space - and I have no intention of going back to double spacing as it no longer makes any sense for what I do.
 


The pronoun has always been capitalized in the English language for more than 700 years.
 

27-11-2015 03:34:12  #6


Re: On double-spacing after a hard stop and all that

skywatcher wrote:

Yikes

Copy and paste from MS word does weird things on this forum. If I could edit this I would, guess we'll just have to muddle through it as best we can.

Sky

Well to you and all who took time to create a serious reply to my random rant, sincere thanks! It is appropriate that a comment on a detail of formatting whose changing convention is wrapped up with the transition from typewriters to word processors should be mutilated by copying between different text editors.

The story told by you and M. Höhne about monospace and proportional fonts and the superiority of governing one's actions by reason rather than rote rules taught by the dead hand of a pedant is cogent and convincing, but I have one doubt: the motivation in aesthetic appearance to double space at the end of a sentence may have been removed by proportional fonts - but I'm not sure how technology has maintained the desirable goal of distinguishing between an abbreviation in the middle of a sentence and the end of a sentence. Are we sure typesetters never took account of this? Even if they did obstinately keep the same space in Dr. Jones and at the end of a sentence this is yet another case where we don't have to be governed by anybody's dead hand. There clearly is some information in a variable amount of space which cues the reader whether he has reached end of a sentence.

Those who hold all explanation of apparent mental lapse as simply equivocation to avoid condign punishment may be skeptical, but I really do habitually favor reason over rote: I was enjoying the free verse rant and the pleasure of under rather than over editing thought. Now possibly I should not mention anything, but in a long and misspent life I've noted that the imperative "Relax" seldom has the literal effect - more usually the opposite.  I was completely relaxed when I wrote that standard rant  !

 <full stop, period, halt, End>  


"Damn the torpedoes! Four bells, Captain Drayton".
     Thread Starter
 

27-11-2015 03:58:17  #7


Re: On double-spacing after a hard stop and all that

I firmly disagree that single spacing after the full stop is 'better' in any sense when using word-processors, or that it enhances that particular medium at all.  Text in any form that lacks the required larger gap between sentences appears clotted and is tiring to read, IMO.  I can see no reason to drop the required enlarged gap in any form of printing or writing, and the whims, preferences and arbitrary peccadilloes of typesetters is as nothing to me in that regard.  Print what I write, and if you don't like the idea, be a traffic warden instead of a printer.  Was that to severe?


Sincerely,
beak.
 
 

27-11-2015 04:25:37  #8


Re: On double-spacing after a hard stop and all that

I was told repeatedly by a writing tutor some years ago, that my work looked unprofessional with single spacing, and that I should learn to double-space after a full-stop. I had the opportunity not long after this to clear the question up with a literary agent. He thought it was the most ridiculous advice, and said, "No one cares about that. It's the writing that matters."
I single-space after a full-stop when using a typewriter too.

 

27-11-2015 07:12:21  #9


Re: On double-spacing after a hard stop and all that

Literary agent?  p-lease.
Of course the writing is important - who doesn't know that! - but the agent, in saying this, in this fashion,  speaks as though the one thing somehow affected the other, which it does not.  Typical tactic of the implied false dichotomy used to avoid a subject one either doesn't know about, does not wish to think about, or has some other stake in a preferred answer to.

Literary agent to prospective client;
"I've read your book; it's trite, boring, cheap, and its banality made me physically sick.
Oh - sorry - don't cry; we are going to publish it, this is
just what people want, and we'll all do well out of it."

...and not addressed to me, in case you were wondering!


Sincerely,
beak.
 
 

27-11-2015 09:20:36  #10


Re: On double-spacing after a hard stop and all that

I would curse every double-space typing teacher who ever lived when I worked on a newspaper copy desk during the transition to pagination and we began receiving such copy from outside sources who all appeared to be typing class graduates. It was even more infuriating when some reporters did it, but at least I could yell at them.
The extra space was quite visible in the printed newspaper and wasted valuable space in a medium where getting one extra sentence into print counted. Wire services did not tolerate it, and the old pros on the Linotype machines didn't either.
Then one day I discovered the find-and-replace function in Quark also worked for empty space and I was all set.

 

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