1 - Rusty Keys
- Novice Typer
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- Posts: 43
Oil -- Where and what kind?
I know that generally oil is a no-no for typewriters, but I read that some parts do require some oil, but it is often not specified. My questions are: what parts do require oil? and second, what type of oil should you use? Regarding the type of oil,is mineral oil acceptable?
- Pete E.
- Typewriter Talk Elite
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Re: Oil -- Where and what kind?
Rusty,
I took my wife's lead with her choice of oil for her vintage sewing machines. Tri-Flow synthetic machine oil (teflon based).
I tried it some years back on our road bicycles after her use for years on the sewing machines.
Have been pleased with it on my typewriters. They also have it available in a needle-applicator product which is handy.
.
- robmck
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Re: Oil -- Where and what kind?
I've used sewing machine oil as I'd heard that was best. (I've also read that trumpet / trombone oil is good).
I'd heard recently, though, that if you use sewing machine oil, you should only use oil from the sewing machine brands - e.g. Singer. Those brands are the only ones that employ qualified petroleum blending experts. Other brands can separate out over time, sometimes with precipitates. Indeed, I've seen a jug of old sewing machine oil, yellowed with precipitates in it.
To me, it makes sense that Singer and the other sewing machine manufacturers would have good stuff because they'd have to deal with the customers gummed up machines otherwise. Haven't yet tried to look into prices, though...
- Maschinengeschrieben
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Re: Oil -- Where and what kind?
Pure mineral oil is not really a good lubricant. Being a watchmaker I just use clock oil, usually D5. That stuff is of cause expensive, Ive had success with nano-oil in the past. But really you can just use generic sewing machine oil like was mentioned here already. The thing about no-oil people keep spouting is mostly in regards to the segment. But Ive even (lightly) oiled segments before. Like on my H3000, where one of the typebars just wouldn't stop squeaking. With a modern, light-weight, fully synthetic oil thats no problem. The main issue is that it can attract dust & turn into an abrasive paste over the years, which causes more issues then it solves. Generally speaking, any sliding pieces of metal that cause friction (any gears, the segment & linkages excluded) can do with some very light oiling. You can use oilers for watches/clocks to make sure not to apply too much. Most important is too keep your machine free of dust.
Learned watchmaker and office machine enthusiast from Germany.
- Phil_F_NM
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Re: Oil -- Where and what kind?
I like to use synthetic hypoid gear oil (the kind that goes in automobile differentials) for some of the "coarser" moving parts like carriage rails and rollers, as well as the bearing races which guide the segment. All the other points get Triflow these days or a synthetic watch oil. I've used a liquid propelled dry lube meant for lock tumblers on the segment itself on two machines, but have kept 9 other machines with dry segments. I'm really not sure what works better. Granted, I don't have any machines which are brand new, so over the last 60-100 years, tolerances have opened up a bit.
This thread reminds me that I really need to sit down and write.
- Rusty Keys
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Re: Oil -- Where and what kind?
I have been doing some reading and from different internet sources it appears that mineral oil is an excellent lubricating oil for fine machinery like sewing machines and typewriters. It contains no solvents and is highly refined. One source states, "These lubricants (mineral oil) are made from petrochemicals and are clear and odorless, with a light viscosity. So if you have mineral oil on hand, it will work great for your sewing machine."
Other sites say sewing machine oil is rebranded mineral oil. I dont always trust what I read on the internet, but there seems to be consistency among different sites. Maybe there is a petrochemical expert on this forum that could weigh in on this topic.
And yes, I agree, dust is the real enemy and the "less is more" rule should be applied to using oil on typewriters.
- •
Thread Starter- M. Höhne
- Key Master
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- Registered: 14-3-2013
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Re: Oil -- Where and what kind?
tldr: nothing personal here; I'm addressing the concept using a concrete example
"I have been doing some reading and from different internet sources it appears that ..." Oh, for the sake of all that's holy ... WHICH sources. Citation needed! Proper research describes its methods.
"... there seems to be consistency among different sites." Have it been considered that they repeat each other, just as is happening here?
"I dont [sic] always trust what I read on the internet ..." How does one decide whether to trust or not? Likelihood based on financial advantage to the source? Reasonableness based on one's understanding of the science? Reasonableness based on the actual science? Reasonableness based on similarity to what is currently on hand in one's workshop? (This one happens a lot.)
"Maybe ... a petrochemical expert ... could weigh in...." Why petrochemical? One of the chemicals most often recommended among small machinery workers is Tri-Flow, which is neither petro nor "pure" maybe, as the very name implies a blend. Why is it ruled out? And graphite?
All of this is not addressing whether lubrication is required at all in typewriters, as they are low-speed, low-force, intermittent-operation machines usually kept in dry conditions, with the obvious and easily-accommodated exception of those with electric motors. Note the details of Selectrics, which are neither low-speed, low-force, nor intermittent and for which IBM has specified very definite lubricating materials.
What is actually being addressed with lubricants in typewriters? Usually it seems to be smoothness in operation, but consider whether that is a fix for the disruption over time of the designed clearances, which would be better addressed by restoring the proper clearances or by cleaning. If the disturbance of clearances is caused by wear, perhaps the only reasonable fix is to fill the gaps with some kind of enduring liquid; perhaps. Discuss. Wear is more of an unknown than we recognize; we brag about a 100-year-old typewriter working perfectly well, without admitting that it has lain dormant for 75 years. Perhaps lubrication is necessary to fight wear, but for our lifetimes with our 50 pages a year? And let us candidly examine the idea that this is a guy thing, that "It's a machine---I gotta oil it!" (I don't offer this lightly; reddit is full of, "I just got my first typewriter! How should I oil it?" And the 3-In-One can features a typewriter, along with a bicycle.)
Dust by itself does not constitute "gunk", but dust combining with some viscous material. And what viscous material do we deliberately put into typewriters? Compare blowing out dry dust with blowing out gunk.
Note: I realize that my tldr: does not fulfill its promise; I wanted to emphasize that this is general.
Finally, this is intended in the spirit of rigorous and open discussion, to hopefully arrive at a position that can be embraced confidently by all of us who value typewriters and other small machines.
- Kalani
- Touch Typist
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Re: Oil -- Where and what kind?
Adding to this older thread: some newer info, and products.
Discovered this "unscented" fine synthetic oil used for firearms, compound bows, and fishing reel gearing. Unlike "triflow" and other oils, it truly has a very minimal smell. I don't want my office smelling like machinery, or a thrift store, so the search for a typewriter innard lubricant that works well and is "fragrance free, smell free" has somewhat ended.
Versa Oil Gear Shield Lubricant (available Amazon.com, with needle applicator bottles).
BTW: This was mentioned on one of Duane's videos at Phoenix Typewriter
Nutrol Control Cleaner: extremely toxic smelling when used.
Singer sewing machine oil is not as unscented as the Versa and also is thicker.
k
- CoronaJoe
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Re: Oil -- Where and what kind?
We need to get down to facts about lube. There's some truth in not using mineral oil, but then again Tri-Flow is not always our friend. First, it is the "RIGHT" mineral oil and the "right" weight or viscosity that has allowed many of our machines to last the 40, 60, 80 years when we find them. Go to the old service manuals and the prescribed oil was WHITE mineral oil and 10 Wt. viscosity. White oil is highly refined mineral oil that is so pure it's free of the stuff that causes gumminess. It is the oil in Sewing Machine oil (and spindle oils for those of you who know) and the proper weight that it has the duration to go service intervals and provide protection against metal to metal wear that thinner oil won't. So no 3 in1. Tri-Flo is a boundary lubricant in that it is made to free up mechanisms and then evaporate to leave a dry boundary film of a non sticky wax. It's why locksmiths like it, it won't attract dust and lasts longer than dry graphite that was once used. Where do I get this white oil? Liquid Wrench's Light Machine Oil p/n L1004 is one easy source. I've checked it's spec sheet and it's almost a match for sewing machine oil though a tad higher in the viscosity range but still a 10 wt. I put the oil in an applicator bottle for pin point lube that only needs a drop or two. Cut it with mineral spirits and brush it on and blow off the excess for rust prevention without the stickiness that WD 40 is infamous for. I do like WD40 for bright work and it really puts a shine on wrinkle finishes.. Whether you want the tried and true, or go synthetic, the main thing is will it last, will it have the viscosity for carriage trucks, spring motor bearings, and other heavy loaded typewriter parts. The same goes for sewing machines. It's not just that they "were built better", they had the right lube as well.
- Kalani
- Touch Typist
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- Registered: 26-8-2021
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Re: Oil -- Where and what kind?
CoronaJoe wrote:
We need to get down to facts about lube. There's some truth in not using mineral oil, but then again Tri-Flow is not always our friend. First, it is the "RIGHT" mineral oil and the "right" weight or viscosity that has allowed many of our machines to last the 40, 60, 80 years when we find them. Go to the old service manuals and the prescribed oil was WHITE mineral oil and 10 Wt. viscosity. White oil is highly refined mineral oil that is so pure it's free of the stuff that causes gumminess. It is the oil in Sewing Machine oil (and spindle oils for those of you who know) and the proper weight that it has the duration to go service intervals and provide protection against metal to metal wear that thinner oil won't. So no 3 in1. Tri-Flo is a boundary lubricant in that it is made to free up mechanisms and then evaporate to leave a dry boundary film of a non sticky wax. It's why locksmiths like it, it won't attract dust and lasts longer than dry graphite that was once used. Where do I get this white oil? Liquid Wrench's Light Machine Oil p/n L1004 is one easy source. I've checked it's spec sheet and it's almost a match for sewing machine oil though a tad higher in the viscosity range but still a 10 wt. I put the oil in an applicator bottle for pin point lube that only needs a drop or two. Cut it with mineral spirits and brush it on and blow off the excess for rust prevention without the stickiness that WD 40 is infamous for. I do like WD40 for bright work and it really puts a shine on wrinkle finishes.. Whether you want the tried and true, or go synthetic, the main thing is will it last, will it have the viscosity for carriage trucks, spring motor bearings, and other heavy loaded typewriter parts. The same goes for sewing machines. It's not just that they "were built better", they had the right lube as well.
Great points.
Well said.
Your comment about lubricants and products that leave a sticky film or coating is accurate. I've worked on quite a number of typewriters and many are coated with a sticky waxy yellow or dirty aged yellow gunk. As a result, things that should move freely, do not, or are even frozen. And, the more intricate the machine, the worse the effect.
As for taking a funky gunky poorly or non working typewriter back to original clean: a combination of steps for the worse ones include, fine quality brake cleaner with light brushing and followed by air compressor blowing and drying, then lacquer thinner used carefully, brushing as needed, then air compressor blow, then isopropryl alcohol etc.
The isopropryl alcohol as a last step also removes the chemical stink from the brake cleaner and/or the lacquer thinner.
Of course, all this is after removal of all body panels, etc.
Tri Flo, CLP cleaner/lubricant, balistrol, and many more products leave a residue or film and also a chemical scent of their own. If well cleaned, the typewriter smells like its original smell. And, is the lst step, IMHO, to restoring and good servicing of a typewriter back to as good a working condition as it can be.
As for lubricant, anything that moves or pivots or hinges or slides or rotates or spins, etc, "as needed" and very minimally, enough to restore full smooth function. Every typewriter seems different in these needs and as usual with most things, there's no one way to do something that applies to everything or all typewriters.
And, individual experiences even with the same type of typewriters vary greatly as well.
I hope this is helpful.
k
