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15-8-2014 13:26:07  #1


Number "8" and "&" identical on the L.C. Smith - Corona 10?

Hello to all members. Although I have had a modest collection of old typwriters, well maintained, for some years, I am new to this forum.
The reason for joining is that I have just purchased a 1920s Smith & Corona 10in office typewriter (made in the USA). In addition to the usual merger of 1 and l as well as O and 0, on this machine, the number "8" seems to be combined with the character "&".(Situated on the same type with the apostrophe.)
It is an odd combination. Doesn't precisely match either character but resembles both. I have asked around and googled the question, but there does not seem to be any knowledge of or reference to this. The type face in question is not damaged, nor warped, it has in fact just been cleaned in surgical spirit, and looks as good as new. Has anyone heard of this combination of 8 and &? Many thanks for your help.

 

15-8-2014 19:06:07  #2


Re: Number "8" and "&" identical on the L.C. Smith - Corona 10?

I have never seen that combination. I checked my S&C 8-11 Secretarial and all my other machines, and in all of them the & sign is located above the numeral 7. My guess is that your machine, although made in the US, was probably intended for a foreign market. ¿Does it have any foreign language characters?

This is a photo of the keyboard.

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2014/227/4/b/l_c__smith_corona_8___11_by_obsolescencia-d7vbifp.jpg

 

16-8-2014 09:40:27  #3


Re: Number "8" and "&" identical on the L.C. Smith - Corona 10?

Some manufacturers produced over 100 keyboard variations for their machines, so although it might not be common, it doesn't surprise me that such a combination for the '8' key exists. For example, the German keyboard layout typically has an underscore combined with the 8 instead of the North American apostrophe and 8 pairing. 

Where was the typewriter purchased from? Someone local? Off the internet? Maybe you could post a photo of the keyboard for reference?


https://i.imgur.com/OZeuKtA.jpg
 

16-8-2014 11:43:43  #4


Re: Number "8" and "&" identical on the L.C. Smith - Corona 10?

The way I read the OP is that Squinancy has a typewriter with one character that looks like it is a mashup of the "8" character and the "&" character and this character is located under the "'" (single quote) where the plain "8" is normally located. The responses seem to say simply that the "&" is nomally located above the "7" and it is odd that here it is over the "8". Well, that by itself is unusual but not odd since there is great variation in which characters are paired. What seems to be odd---if I read this correctly---is that actual shape of the "8&" character. It seems to me that Squinnancy is saying that this is a combined character like the interrobang.

Squinancy, we must see a photo of all three: the keytop, the slug, and the printed character. What is over the "7"? What other unusual characters and/or placements are on this thing? Are there any labels on the typewriter that show that it was owned by a mediaeval wizard?

Or am I reading this wrong, Squinancy?

 

16-8-2014 13:27:11  #5


Re: Number "8" and "&" identical on the L.C. Smith - Corona 10?

I'm not sure how you would combine the number 8 with an & to create a character that would be usable for both applications, so yes, photos are a must to make full sense of this.


https://i.imgur.com/OZeuKtA.jpg
 

16-8-2014 22:16:37  #6


Re: Number "8" and "&" identical on the L.C. Smith - Corona 10?

squinancy, is your mystery character like the one on the left in this pic?


https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5576/14941595802_5f04a0197a_o.jpg


If so, it is simply a stylized numeral "8", just made to look a little different. There should be a regular ampersand over the "7". On the same typewriter, a Smith Corona Secretarial, there is the character on the right, a "C", and the upper and lower case are the same.

Last edited by Uwe (02-9-2014 16:59:59)

 

02-9-2014 03:49:58  #7


Re: Number "8" and "&" identical on the L.C. Smith - Corona 10?

Apologies for the long delay. I was on holiday.
Thanks for your insights into this curious phenomenon. I have since had more time to spend with the Smith & Corona 10 and can confirm that there is a proper ampersand in the upper case position of the 7 key. So this 8 shape must be a passing fashion of the time perhaps. An imitation of the cursive handwritten 8 maybe? Whatever it is, it is curious.
I bought the typewriter from a chap in Southend -on-Sea who had had it for 30 years and took good care of it.
I took a picture of the strange 8 typeface, but (It must be me being a dinosaur) I can't figure out how to upload a picture to this forum site. Same way, I can't open the photo sent by Novice Typer. Can someone explain please? 
 

     Thread Starter
 

02-9-2014 07:54:01  #8


Re: Number "8" and "&" identical on the L.C. Smith - Corona 10?

Meanwhile I cracked the secret of uploads. Yes, the 8 looks like the one M. Hoehne has uploaded. Though I cannot find the C with the squiggle.
This is the URL for the photo I took of typeface on the Smith & Corona:
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5578/15117162905_4cb37f3dcd_z.jpg


 

Last edited by Uwe (02-9-2014 16:58:12)

     Thread Starter
 

02-9-2014 10:10:29  #9


Re: Number "8" and "&" identical on the L.C. Smith - Corona 10?

Squinancy wrote:

Meanwhile I cracked the secret of uploads. Yes, the 8 looks like the one M. Hoehne has uploaded. Though I cannot find the C with the squiggle.
This is the URL for the photo I took of typeface on the Smith & Corona:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/126655310@N05/?saved=1

First of all, squinancy, thanks for refreshing this thread. I was wondering where all the excitement went to.

Next, you have confirmed that the oddly shaped "8" is just a stylized version of an ordinary "8" and it is interesting that they seem to appear haphazardly--e.g., you have the "8" while I have the "8", the funny "C" and a slashed zero, all on the same machine. And they didn't develop many stylized characters. In my case, it might have to do with the fact that this typewriter is a "mill" --- it has only upper case and was used to transcribe radio communications and/or telegrams. In that use it is important to be very clear about every character; thus the slashed zero and the distinct number "1" instead of the common use of lower case "l" (ell) for "one". The "C" occurs often in radio, as in the CQ codes (q.v., haha), so they would want to avoid mistaking an incomplete "O" for a "C". Maybe. As for the stylized "8", I dunno. A designer having fun? A question for the ages? 

Thirdly, by your reference to "Novice Typer"'s picture that you couldn't open in a previous post, if you are actually referring to "M. Höhne", then notice that I had a problem, too. I was able to use this forum's procedure to enter the URL to my pic but it won't resolve and display the pic here (the broken link icon). That's why I then entered the actual URL in the body of my post, and you should have been able to click on that link and be taken to the pic; it works when I do it. Uwe, what's my problem? ---I mean, my problem with displaying a pic, not a whole list of my problems.

 

02-9-2014 16:54:23  #10


Re: Number "8" and "&" identical on the L.C. Smith - Corona 10?

It looks like Smith-Corona used those crazy eights for a number of years because my 1946 Model1A Super-Speed also has that particular version of the figure eight. Something else that might be relevant to the discussion: it appears that this particular slug was only appeared on standard models.

With respect to uploading images, I just spent some time figuring it out. Flickr certainly doesn't make it very easy: 
1. Click on  the "Share this Photo" icon on the bottom right corner of your image in Flickr.
2. Under the word "Code" click on "HTML".
3. Under that click on the drop down menu and select a photo size you want to upload (please keep it under 900 pixels in width).
4. At the very bottom of the dialogue box, make sure HTML is selected, and not EMBED.
5. Copy the text that appears in the box.
6. Here's where it gets slightly tedious; paste that text in the "Image" dialogue box that you opened in your post here on Typewriter Talk.
7. IMPORTANT: Delete all the text from what you just pasted before and including the quoatation mark in this section: <img src=" - then delete everything after .jpg. It might sound a little confusing, but it only takes a couple of seconds. The short of it is that you're just stripping out the actual URL for the image and getting rid of the junk that Flickr wraps around it. For example, I upoloaded the image in Post #7 of this topic by using this URL that I got from Flickr: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5578/15117162905_4cb37f3dcd_z.jpg  What you're using should start with "http" and end with ".jpg".

Last edited by Uwe (02-9-2014 17:20:31)


https://i.imgur.com/OZeuKtA.jpg
 

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