Offline
Ahaha, looks like I started a real conversation there! Glad to have all this ironed out. Uwe, excellent thinking. There is some rather pristine-looking blue felt lining the ribbon cover, which has the look of having been added later, as it were - no doubt for the same reason. I might put another layer on that and also put something underneath the eraser table.
Just to throw a sop to the original subject of the thread, I do have one QDL and while it has a pleasingly light action and is refreshingly under-engineered compared to the Olympias et al, it skips, bunches, demands that all the precision come from the typist, not it - it may have had a hard life - but the number of reports of these kinds of things with the QDL makes me wonder why so many people seem to think it's the best typewriter ever.
Offline
Ampelmann wrote:
Well, on the subject of Royals, I only have a sample size of one to work with. That being said, compared to my other typewriters, I find that my Quiet DeLuxe feels - for lack of a better term - slightly mushy. Not a bad feeling per se, but compared to my two favourite typers (SM4 and Lettera 22), it's a little soft, even with the touch control adjusted up.
Exactly with the QDL although it's a good all around typer. If you ever run across the first Royal Portables, I would recommend giving it a test type. They feel different than the models that followed.
Offline
I have to ask: By what standards are we grading these typewriters? Looks? Performance? Reliability? This reminds me of people comparing the brands of cars they bought last year and comparing them to whatever everybody else is driving and also to the new cars coming out this year. Just who owns the "best one on the block?" Some people don't like Royal typewriters for the lack of features, and that they may be a bit too "American." My take is this: It isn't the ability of the typewriter that makes a good printed page, it's the typist. You can have the fanciest Alpina or Olympia, attempt to use it, and wind up with a mess that would take five people to figure out just what message you wanted to convey. On the other hand, you could put a Buddy L toy typewriter in front of an accomplished typist and they could produce a page, error free, easy on the eyes, and free-flowing of message.
Offline
The way I rate typewriters is on three things: Looks/Styling, Touch, and Print Quality.
Typewriters like the Royal 10 strike pretty high because they look awesome, and have (in my opinion...) a wonderful touch. But the print quality (of my individual typewriter) isn't the best, so it scores a solid 8 or 8.5.
I don't think features and extras should be a make or break for keeping a typewriter or not. Sure I'd prefer the Torpedo 18b over the 18a because the 18b has a tabulator and, well, it's very easy for centering the carriage. And wouldn't it be nice if the Optima Elite 3 had some margin scales too? But those are just small things that shouldn't factor too much into deciding whether or not a certain typewriter is for you.
Offline
TypewriterKing wrote:
It isn't the ability of the typewriter that makes a good printed page, it's the typist.
I think you're confusing type quality with quality of writing. Even with a complete novice at the keyboard of an Olympia, the type quality would be far superior to anything that a professional typist could produce using a Buddy L. To suggest that the only difference in type quality between a well-engineered machine and a children's toy is down to the person using it makes no sense. When comparing typewriters, or grading them, it is type quality that is being discussed.
The quality of the writing is another matter, and the machinery or medium used has little to no effect on it. Someone who writes poorly while using a typewriter would not have fared any better with paper and pen, and it can't be assumed that all inexperienced typists lack grammar skills. Similarly, someone could be a professional typist and yet be incapable of constructing wonderful prose. Most typists (during the era that these machines were produced) were NOT writers, just human versions of the modern day photocopier. In other words, an "accomplished" typist is not a guarantee of quality writing, and on that grading system, an inexperienced typist using a Buddy L is just as likely to produce a "free-flowing message" as a pro using an Olympia.
Offline
ztyper wrote:
The way I rate typewriters is on three things: Looks/Styling, Touch, and Print Quality.
Grading or comparing styling is a subjective exercise, and to a lesser degree, so is touch. Touch (type action) and print quality are directly effected by the condition of the typewriter, so in terms of comparing typewriters, unless all the machines involved have been tuned to factory specifications and their parts verified to be free of excessive wear, how does one know if their comparison has anything to do with the true performance potential of the models being discussed?
On another note, I don't think a model's features should be dismissed so lightly when the value of certain features can vary so greatly from person to person. An alignment scale with a pencil guide might seem like a completely superfluous feature for someone who only writes letters, but it could be a critical component to another buyer who has to draw tables on a regular basis. Consequently, any relevant comparison between two models should include a concise list of each machine's features, and all of those features should be considered when trying to determine which model is the better buy.
Offline
TypewriterKing wrote:
I have to ask: By what standards are we grading these typewriters? Looks? Performance? Reliability?
I can only speak for myself based on my typing style and preference. I do think it is a personal choice based on each person's exposure to which typewriters that they have used and of course the condition of the machine. In saying that my test of grading is based on whether I can type 3-4 pages without having to think too much about the actual typewriter. For example, I have a love/dislike relationship with the Hermes 3000. It has a most interesting feel to it but I only use that for light typing due to the lack of confidence in the bottomming of the key action. Now, my husband who is a much heavier typer than I, loves the Hermes, it's his favorite. Another example is the Lettera 22/32. It suits my typing style and feel yet the small space bar makes my thumb less confident in finding it. Again, it makes me think about the machine. With the Torpedo that I've previously mention, I've discovered that I don't have have to think about the actual machine when I'm typing. I can focus and concentrate more on what I'm typing.Style & looks is the last thing that I consider although, I do greatly appreciate the beauty of them so It's a bonus if it's a beauty! I would rather have an ugly looking great typer vs a gorgeous awful typer. I do have a Corona 3 Bank that I recently restored as well as a 3 bank Underwood. Those are used just for fun and I find them rather cute due to their size and uniqueness.
Offline
Uwe wrote:
unless all the machines involved have been tuned to factory specifications and their parts verified to be free of excessive wear, how does one know if their comparison has anything to do with the true performance potential of the models being discussed?
Perhaps I was a bit unclear looking back now. What I had meant was the individual machines within my own collection. For instance, I really like the Olympia SM-4. I'd recommend it to anyone. But I only have one. So compared to the other typewriters I own, it scores pretty high. That's not saying that the one someone else owns the same model has a score that high either.
I think every one of the models discussed does fall within a certain range of quality and performance. The cursive SM-9 that I have is so gently used, that the slugs barely had any traces of ink on them (sooo shiny!) and its touch is a bit different than my mother's SM-9 which was used for about 20 years straight, but its overall performance it similar enough to say that they are the same machine. So I suppose we should be aware that certain typewriters are going to vary in wear and tear, but we shouldn't be afraid to say what we think about a certain model. After all, usually all of the models discussed are owned by multiple people and perhaps they could give their two bits on what they think of a certain model of typewriter. So many opinions will form some sort of truth that will give an accurate representation of the specific model.
Offline
Touch on the same machine before and after adjustments will vary GREATLY! I completely dissembled my Oliver 9, and after re assembling it and perfectly adjusting everything, it types like its the worlds fastest Oliver.
Offline
These last few comments relate directly to what I said in my last comment, about the QDL's habit of skipping, or bunching, etc. TypewriterKing writes:
TypewriterKing wrote:
My take is this: It isn't the ability of the typewriter that makes a good printed page, it's the typist. You can have the fanciest Alpina or Olympia, attempt to use it, and wind up with a mess that would take five people to figure out just what message you wanted to convey. On the other hand, you could put a Buddy L toy typewriter in front of an accomplished typist and they could produce a page, error free, easy on the eyes, and free-flowing of message.
Well, clearly the most pristine page of typed content is the result of both the sturdiness of the machine and the skill of the typist; some machines are more forgiving, more accommodating, than others. I found this myself when I was in the throes of teaching myself to type 'properly', and indeed as I get more comfortable with my own habits (and with my various machines) my own results are improving. At the beginning, I got the most predictably decent results on the Olympias, and the Hermes. These are beginner's notes, btw, based on a single machine. But my experience has grown and my general impressions hold (even given the differences between machines).
But there are still machines, like that QDL, on which if you get into what you're doing and forget to type like a metronome, you lose control over the type. Or putting it the other way, on which slowing down and typing at Lenore Fenton's steady rhythm will indeed produce vastly improved results. Mine certainly does this, and I've read numerous discussions online about how this is a common trait in a QDL. It makes me wonder why it's considered such a great, solid, reliable instrument. My mother had hers from age 15 and HATED manual typewriters - I can't help thinking she might have had a different impression of them if someone had given her a Hermes 3000 that would meet her halfway...
TypewriterKing wrote:
Some people don't like Royal typewriters for the lack of features, and that they may be a bit too "American."
I'm curious about this - what do you mean?