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1 - skywatcher
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Offline - From: The Prairies of Alberta
- Registered: 14-3-2013
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Could This be a Radio Mill?
Greetings All
While browsing the eBay UK site, I came across this interesting unit (eBay UK item # 261752198190 ). I've messaged the seller who indicates the figure zero is not struck as is the zero on US built radio mill typewriters. However this one has only upper case letters along with figures and punctuation. It also has the holder for what may be a roll of Morse transcription paper. Any thoughts? All the best,
Sky
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Last edited by Uwe (01-2-2015 12:00:24)
We humans go through many computers in our lives, but in their lives, typewriters go through many of us.
In that way, they’re like violins, like ancestral swords. So I use mine with honor and treat them with respect.
I try to leave them in better condition than I met them. I am not their first user, nor will I be their last.
Frederic S. Durbin. (Typewriter mania and the modern writer)
- Uwe
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- From: Toronto, Canada
- Registered: 12-3-2013
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Re: Could This be a Radio Mill?
Not a radio mill in my opinion, but a machine that was used for transposing telegrams. The keyboard is of course one clue, but the paper roll holder is the important one (held pre-printed telegram forms in a continuous roll). Whereas I've seen many photos of telegram operators with such roll holders, I've never seen one on a radio mill. And an important note: The spools on the paper holder held by the eBay machine are identical to those below.
The pronoun I has always been capitalized in the English language for more than 700 years.
- skywatcher
- Moderator
Offline
- From: The Prairies of Alberta
- Registered: 14-3-2013
- Posts: 738
Re: Could This be a Radio Mill?
Hi Uwe
Bingo!! Looks like you nailed this one. Thanks for the awsome picture of the telegraph girls. All the best,
Sky
We humans go through many computers in our lives, but in their lives, typewriters go through many of us.
In that way, they’re like violins, like ancestral swords. So I use mine with honor and treat them with respect.
I try to leave them in better condition than I met them. I am not their first user, nor will I be their last.
Frederic S. Durbin. (Typewriter mania and the modern writer)
- •
Thread Starter- Tom Waits
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- Posts: 13
Re: Could This be a Radio Mill?
Skywatcher,
Looks like Uwe nailed that one right off. Great picture Uwe, Thanks.
Here is a discription of a U.S. radio morse code "mill". One of these days. I hope to find a Royal Arrow labled USN.
I am a Ham Radio op and like to copy morse with the typewriter.
Tom
A "mill" is distinguished from normal typewriters by having all caps (9 point, sans serif) and having numbers "1" and "slashed 0" on the top row.
Last edited by Tom Waits (01-2-2015 17:42:44)
- Uwe
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- From: Toronto, Canada
- Registered: 12-3-2013
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Re: Could This be a Radio Mill?
Tom, I'd amend your statement to apply to U.S. radio mills only. Radio mills made elsewhere or used in other countries didn't necessarily subscribe to the characteristics you outlined. Not all, for example, used a Ø in the typeset.
I just did some digging in my photo directories and was surprised to find this image, mostly because I had written the caption below it and have clearly forgotten it since then. It obviously contradicts my belief that paper spools were only used on civilian telegram typewriters. The image is of the radio room on a Canadian destroyer and clearly shows a Remington 17 mated with a paper spool. I still think that the eBay machine was used by a telegram service, but the reasons why are less concrete now.
Last edited by Uwe (01-2-2015 15:26:11)
The pronoun I has always been capitalized in the English language for more than 700 years.
- skywatcher
- Moderator
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- From: The Prairies of Alberta
- Registered: 14-3-2013
- Posts: 738
Re: Could This be a Radio Mill?
Great Info
Thank you for all your information. I remembered seeing a design specification drawing for a radio mill typewriter showing a roll of paper, which is why I thought this may have been a radio mill. Still on the subject of this unit, the seller has ended the auction and wants to relist it as accurately as possible.To this end, does anyone know where to find the serial number on an Imperial 58, so the exact year of the machine can be included in the listing. The Typewriter Database indicates the 58 was built from 1948 to 1960, meaning it is definitely post war, however, it's still a very interesting piece of telecommunication history. Thanks and all the best,
Sky
We humans go through many computers in our lives, but in their lives, typewriters go through many of us.
In that way, they’re like violins, like ancestral swords. So I use mine with honor and treat them with respect.
I try to leave them in better condition than I met them. I am not their first user, nor will I be their last.
Frederic S. Durbin. (Typewriter mania and the modern writer)
- •
Thread Starter- Uwe
- Moderator
Offline
- From: Toronto, Canada
- Registered: 12-3-2013
- Posts: 4,410
Re: Could This be a Radio Mill?
The serial number should be under the carriage on the right side (the carriage has to be moved all the way to the left for it to be seen).
With respect to typewriter use in naval radio rooms, I recently read that prior to the mid- to late-'50s, messages were predominantly handwritten. Typewriter use for transposing radio messages only became widespread in the late '50s, and interestingly, they were apparently fitted with a special dead key with an "overline" on it that was somehow used in conjunction with intercepting Russian transmissions and typing cyrillic copy.
The pronoun I has always been capitalized in the English language for more than 700 years.
- skywatcher
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- From: The Prairies of Alberta
- Registered: 14-3-2013
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Re: Could This be a Radio Mill?
Hi Uwe
Just checked with my wife (who is a wizard of words) re the correct term for this kind of typing. The correct word is "Transcribing" which means changing information from one format into another, usually from the spoken word, delivered directly or via a means of telecommunication, or another source (Morse {radio, audio or visual}, semaphore, signal flags etc.) to the written word.
“Transposing” is when you switch letters around (intentionally or not) within a word or words within a sentence, and “Transponding” is not a recognized word. A transponder is a piece of electronic equipment (usually found in aircraft) that responds to a radio signal in order to identify the aircraft to the control tower. All the best,
Sky
We humans go through many computers in our lives, but in their lives, typewriters go through many of us.
In that way, they’re like violins, like ancestral swords. So I use mine with honor and treat them with respect.
I try to leave them in better condition than I met them. I am not their first user, nor will I be their last.
Frederic S. Durbin. (Typewriter mania and the modern writer)
- •
Thread Starter- Uwe
- Moderator
Offline
- From: Toronto, Canada
- Registered: 12-3-2013
- Posts: 4,410
Re: Could This be a Radio Mill?
You're right that transcribing would have made a better word choice. I should have taken more care with what I was writing. However, the word transposing has more meaning than what you suggested, and in my use of it I was referring to the act of transferring radio signals to the typed page. I'm not sure why you mentioned transponding since I don't think it wasn't used at all in this thread.
Semantics aside, I'm going to continue to dig into the history of radio mills because they do come up often in the discussions of collectors. From what I've been finding so far, it appears that paper spools were not used by the U.S. Navy, but did find use in the Canadian Navy. The question is, did the British Navy use them as well? It's the more relevant question given the machine is British and is being sold on the U.K. eBay site.
Last edited by Uwe (02-2-2015 10:40:56)
The pronoun I has always been capitalized in the English language for more than 700 years.
- skywatcher
- Moderator
Offline
- From: The Prairies of Alberta
- Registered: 14-3-2013
- Posts: 738
Re: Could This be a Radio Mill?
Hi Again
I stand corrected. Transcribing and transposing would both be acceptable words in this context. As you say, where transponding came from, I don't know, must be my dyslexia kicking in again.
The seller tells me that I have really ignited his curiosity about this unit. He has contacted a typewriter repair shop in England, who fully agrees with our combined findings and indicates that in 40+ years of business, has only ever seen one other telegraph or telegram typewriter. This unit's serial number indicates it was built in the latter part of 1952. I'll keep you posted with any further developments. All the best,
Sky
We humans go through many computers in our lives, but in their lives, typewriters go through many of us.
In that way, they’re like violins, like ancestral swords. So I use mine with honor and treat them with respect.
I try to leave them in better condition than I met them. I am not their first user, nor will I be their last.
Frederic S. Durbin. (Typewriter mania and the modern writer)
- •
Thread Starter