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17-1-2021 16:55:00  #11


Re: Typewriter Desk Bolts

I tried an M6x1.00 bolt from the hardware store today and found that it threads into my carriage-shifted Royal 10 further than 1/4"-20 but will not get all the way through the threads without forcing, which could damage the typewriter.  This metric bolt may still be workable by stacking washers on the underside of the desk to get just the right depth to engage the threads without needed to turn too far to need forcing.

Converted to metric, the original 1/4"-24 bolt is M6.45x0.94, a 1/4"-20 (course) is M6.45x0.79 and 1/4"-28 (fine) is M6.45x1.1, which makes the metric bolt the closest of commonly available bolts but not a perfect match.  Being undersized in bolt diameter allows the M6x1.00 some room for the thread mismatch.

For my desk mounting, I also tried to use an undersized bolt with a nut on the backside of the threads.  My machine doesn't have enough room for the nut but this may for other machine with a more open design, especially later machines which used stamped sheet-metal instead of cast iron.

Studs or bolts could, in principle, be made from readily available rods with a readily available 1/4"-24 thread-cutting die but the die I found is $50, plus more for the tool to hold it.

I considered drilling the threads out and tapping slightly larger modern threads but this risks cracking the cast iron as it will be thinner after drilling.

I finally decided to buy a 10-pack of Harley Davidson bolts with the correct thread, which ran about $30 shipped.  I need two, PM me if you need a pair, I'll have extras.  Hopefully this does the trick.
 

 

18-1-2021 11:47:19  #12


Re: Typewriter Desk Bolts

I mounted a Royal Model 10 using M6x1 bolts just fine. I got it from someone who had jammed 1/4 x 20 bolts in there and maybe this forced the threaded holes loose enough that the metric bolts worked OK. It is tight now and solid. i always wondered why a metric thread in a US made machine, especially of that era---well maybe they weren't metric originally.

 

19-2-2021 15:14:47  #13


Re: Typewriter Desk Bolts

M. Höhne wrote:

I mounted a Royal Model 10 using M6x1 bolts just fine. I got it from someone who had jammed 1/4 x 20 bolts in there and maybe this forced the threaded holes loose enough that the metric bolts worked OK. It is tight now and solid. i always wondered why a metric thread in a US made machine, especially of that era---well maybe they weren't metric originally.

Did the metric bolts thread all the way through reasonably smoothly?  Were any of the threads missing from the 1/4x20 attempt?
 

 

19-2-2021 20:47:00  #14


Re: Typewriter Desk Bolts

PCC322 wrote:

M. Höhne wrote:

I mounted a Royal Model 10 using M6x1 bolts just fine. I got it from someone who had jammed 1/4 x 20 bolts in there and maybe this forced the threaded holes loose enough that the metric bolts worked OK. It is tight now and solid. i always wondered why a metric thread in a US made machine, especially of that era---well maybe they weren't metric originally.

Did the metric bolts thread all the way through reasonably smoothly?  Were any of the threads missing from the 1/4x20 attempt?
 

The metric bolts threaded in smoothly or I would not have continued. Biggest problem was finding a 10mm wrench to snug them up with.   I didn't really inspect the holes as I didn't expect there to be anything I could do if they were ruined. Helicoil?

What I did was pick up a variety of likely-looking bolts at the hardware store, 1/4x20 (fresh ones), 1/4x24, 1/4x28, and the M6x1. Only the metric one threaded in nicely and it feels secure. I can't be sure that's what the factory made and I haven't measured any other typewriter screws to see whether there was a metric standard. I do wish I could find the M6x1 with a black slotted round head, as that would look better in the desk than the bright hex head.

 

19-2-2021 23:17:48  #15


Re: Typewriter Desk Bolts

Hi PCC

Just did a quick Google search for ¼" - 24 machine screws and found this site. Just wondering if there's anything here that might help. All the best,

Sky


We humans go through many computers in our lives, but in their lives, typewriters go through many of us.
In that way, they’re like violins, like ancestral swords. So I use mine with honor and treat them with respect.
I try to leave them in better condition than I met them. I am not their first user, nor will I be their last.
Frederic S. Durbin. (Typewriter mania and the modern writer)
 

20-2-2021 02:03:41  #16


Re: Typewriter Desk Bolts

I saw that site when I was looking around and probably could have made one of the longer bolts work but what I ended up buying was from here:

https://www.lowbrowcustoms.com/products/colony-machine-pshc-205-1-4-24-x-1-7-16-length-chrome-polished-allen-bolt-10-pack

They were the only one that I found that had a selection of lengths, though they only come in 10-packs, so I have extras now for the next four desks I buy or the next four typewriter fans that ask.

 

20-2-2021 19:27:17  #17


Re: Typewriter Desk Bolts

The proper bolt is probably 1/4 x 26tpi, which is a BSF thread. 6mm is very close to 1/4, and the pitch of 26tpi is also very close to metric 1 thread/mm. That said, the depth or finish may be off just a bit, enough to make the bolt snag. British threads are rounded on the crests and in valleys, metric are usually sharp. I used to work in a bike shop that specialized in bicycles from the late 1800s to pre-WWII, a time before the adoption of one of the two remaining prevailing standards. Most bicycles made in the USA at the time when the Royal 10 was being made were using BSF or Whitworth threads.
Phil Forrest

 

20-2-2021 20:10:18  #18


Re: Typewriter Desk Bolts

Phil_F_NM wrote:

The proper bolt is probably 1/4 x 26tpi, which is a BSF thread. 6mm is very close to 1/4, and the pitch of 26tpi is also very close to metric 1 thread/mm. That said, the depth or finish may be off just a bit, enough to make the bolt snag. British threads are rounded on the crests and in valleys, metric are usually sharp. I used to work in a bike shop that specialized in bicycles from the late 1800s to pre-WWII, a time before the adoption of one of the two remaining prevailing standards. Most bicycles made in the USA at the time when the Royal 10 was being made were using BSF or Whitworth threads.
Phil Forrest

This is very good information and may be the answer. Thanks.

 

20-2-2021 20:15:23  #19


Re: Typewriter Desk Bolts

Hi Phil

I was wondering if this machine was old enough to use a Whitworth, Whitworth fine or some other long forgotten thread, but figured that with America wanting to sever all ties with England after the Revolutionary war, they would have got rid of anything that harkened back to British engineering standards. Looks like I stand corrected here. All the best,

Sky


We humans go through many computers in our lives, but in their lives, typewriters go through many of us.
In that way, they’re like violins, like ancestral swords. So I use mine with honor and treat them with respect.
I try to leave them in better condition than I met them. I am not their first user, nor will I be their last.
Frederic S. Durbin. (Typewriter mania and the modern writer)
 

20-2-2021 20:59:51  #20


Re: Typewriter Desk Bolts

The Whitworth standard was not established until long after even the War of 1812, nevermind the Revolutionary War, and there wasn't much in the matter of engineering standards to be rejected. The success of the Industrial Revolution swept all before it. I was encountering Whitworth threads in bicycle repair in the 1970s, not to mention my 1951 MG.

 

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